@ND Baseball (Poll)

[DecaturJacket]

But do we reach those goals if we ended up losing those 3 midweek games because we help Patel for one weekend game? We will never know that. What I do know is how frustrating it has been the past few years losing midweek games that we should have won.

Because Patel got the win, you assume he was needed for the win. I would argue that's not necessarily accurate. I was wrong, it's actually 4 midweek wins too.

Georgia Southern and Georgia State you could argue that we really "needed" Patel. The offense struggled in both (though both teams offenses struggled regardless of who was pitching as it was much chillier weather). The other two were blowouts.

The thing about it is though, if he's in the rotation, you have Brady and/or Riley as options in the pen, as well as plenty of other arms. It's obviously impossible to say what happens either way, but you could also argue "what if he's available for either the VT or Pitt loss? If he's a starter, he started one of those games. He was key in a win in the VT series, on a day that Tate pitched. I've already stated my opinion that plenty of times. In the Pitt series he threw in a blowout game. Honestly I think it probably evens out and we're in the same spot W/L-wise and he's got around the same amount of IP.

You may say what's the point then? The point, as I've made dozens of times at this point, is that our schedule is about to get infinitely more difficult. Therefore, the needs kinda change a little bit. As has been pointed out, if we don't have other relievers that we can rely on for midweek games we've got even bigger problems. Patel is about to be needed in a big way on the weekends and we cannot afford to use up his arm during the week. Whether it's starting or coming in in long relief he's going to have to be a big part of any ACC success we're going to have.

 

[DecaturJacket]

Help me understand what the difference is between Patel starting and going 6 2/3 innings vs relieving and going 6 2/3 innings if we win the game in both cases? Either way he won't start on Sunday. By using him in relief instead of starting we have the option of saving his innings for Sunday if we happened to win in a blowout today. Had he started we lose that option.

You fail to see that it's how he's used that is a problem, not a specific game. If the plan is to keep using him in relief, there may never be a situation in a weekend where he can come in and give us 6 2/3 innings in relief and us get a win. He could give up no runs, hell no hits, and we could lose because we're already down. At least if he's starting and he does that, the worst case is that it's 0-0 when he comes out. As we start playing better opponents, the odds that we have leads decrease and you're playing a game within a game looking for the best spot to use him. If you start him you're already maximizing his use in those crucial innings.

The likelihood of us being able to ball out and get leads early, so that even if Brady or whoever starts gives up a bunch of runs in their 2-3 innings that they give us we're ok because we can bring Patel in with a lead is significantly less against the much more talented squads coming up.

The only way to guarantee he gets meaningful innings (in other words innings that directly give us the best chance to win) is getting him in there when it's 0-0. It's the whole reason you start best pitchers. Otherwise, everybody would just free frawl willy nilly put their best pitchers in here and there as they please. Patel specifically on this team is one of two guys who have shown that they can pitch well consistently over a stretch of more than 2-3 innings.

 

[randerto]

You fail to see that it's how he's used that is a problem, not a specific game. If the plan is to keep using him in relief, there may never be a situation in a weekend where he can come in and give us 6 2/3 innings in relief and us get a win. He could give up no runs, hell no hits, and we could lose because we're already down. At least if he's starting and he does that, the worst case is that it's 0-0 when he comes out. As we start playing better opponents, the odds that we have leads decrease and you're playing a game within a game looking for the best spot to use him. If you start him you're already maximizing his use in those crucial innings.

The likelihood of us being able to ball out and get leads early, so that even if Brady or whoever starts gives up a bunch of runs in their 2-3 innings that they give us we're ok because we can bring Patel in with a lead is significantly less against the much more talented squads coming up.

The only way to guarantee he gets meaningful innings (in other words innings that directly give us the best chance to win) is getting him in there when it's 0-0. It's the whole reason you start best pitchers. Otherwise, everybody would just free frawl willy nilly put their best pitchers in here and there as they please. Patel specifically on this team is one of two guys who have shown that they can pitch well consistently over a stretch of more than 2-3 innings.

I agree with your logic - as our ACC schedule becomes much more challenging, Patel should be a starter given Jones and Riley have not yet shown a consistent ability to get past 2-3 innings - Patel has... Also, his ability to impact more than one ACC game/weekend as a reliever doesn't hold water when he is used in a long relief role like yesterday... There's a reason, the most effective pitchers are used in starting roles...he has now established himself (for now) as more effective than Jones or Riley...it's all dynamic but based on merit...

 

[THWG]

Because Patel got the win, you assume he was needed for the win. I would argue that's not necessarily accurate. I was wrong, it's actually 4 midweek wins too.

Georgia Southern and Georgia State you could argue that we really "needed" Patel. The offense struggled in both (though both teams offenses struggled regardless of who was pitching as it was much chillier weather). The other two were blowouts.

The thing about it is though, if he's in the rotation, you have Brady and/or Riley as options in the pen, as well as plenty of other arms. It's obviously impossible to say what happens either way, but you could also argue "what if he's available for either the VT or Pitt loss? If he's a starter, he started one of those games. He was key in a win in the VT series, on a day that Tate pitched. I've already stated my opinion that plenty of times. In the Pitt series he threw in a blowout game. Honestly I think it probably evens out and we're in the same spot W/L-wise and he's got around the same amount of IP.

You may say what's the point then? The point, as I've made dozens of times at this point, is that our schedule is about to get infinitely more difficult. Therefore, the needs kinda change a little bit. As has been pointed out, if we don't have other relievers that we can rely on for midweek games we've got even bigger problems. Patel is about to be needed in a big way on the weekends and we cannot afford to use up his arm during the week. Whether it's starting or coming in in long relief he's going to have to be a big part of any ACC success we're going to have.

You're ignoring the fact that those games weren't blowouts though until Patel came in and settled things down. We have brought him in for very high leverage situations, and he has delivered every single time this year. Then, the coaches just let it ride until it either becomes a blowout or we win the game. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

You also keep making the point that if we don't have any other relievers for midweek games that we're in trouble. I would say if we don't have anybody else that can start on the weekends, we're in trouble. I think Jones is fine in the Saturday role, he just has to find consistency. His stuff is obviously electric. As for Stanford, I think he is better suited for a relief role so I would start Spivey or Gaudette on Sundays.

 

[4shotB]

I do know 1 thing in all my life playing, coaching, watching- do not monkey with something that's working well trying to get 10-20% more out of it.

This is a truism that I agree with and it extends outside of baseball. I have seen numerous examples at work. Also, I believe Tiger Woods would have far surpassed Nicklaus' major record if he would have left well enough alone. IMO although I have heard this from at least one of his contemporaries as well.

 

[GT33]

Because Patel got the win, you assume he was needed for the win. I would argue that's not necessarily accurate. I was wrong, it's actually 4 midweek wins too.

Georgia Southern and Georgia State you could argue that we really "needed" Patel. The offense struggled in both (though both teams offenses struggled regardless of who was pitching as it was much chillier weather). The other two were blowouts.

The thing about it is though, if he's in the rotation, you have Brady and/or Riley as options in the pen, as well as plenty of other arms. It's obviously impossible to say what happens either way, but you could also argue "what if he's available for either the VT or Pitt loss? If he's a starter, he started one of those games. He was key in a win in the VT series, on a day that Tate pitched. I've already stated my opinion that plenty of times. In the Pitt series he threw in a blowout game. Honestly I think it probably evens out and we're in the same spot W/L-wise and he's got around the same amount of IP.

You may say what's the point then? The point, as I've made dozens of times at this point, is that our schedule is about to get infinitely more difficult. Therefore, the needs kinda change a little bit. As has been pointed out, if we don't have other relievers that we can rely on for midweek games we've got even bigger problems. Patel is about to be needed in a big way on the weekends and we cannot afford to use up his arm during the week. Whether it's starting or coming in in long relief he's going to have to be a big part of any ACC success we're going to have.

Patel entered the Pitt game in the 5th when it was 2-0. Your comment implies Hall brought him in when it was 9-0 or something & just wasted innings. I'm all for criticizing Hall, but he was supposed to be clairvoyant and knew we were going to score 3 in the bottom of the 5th, 2 in the bottom of the 6th and then 4 in the bottom of the 7th to run rule them after we had only scored 2 in 4 innings?

 

[Eli]

Patel is 7-0, pitched in 8 games so far. You have to go all the way back to 2019 to find a GT pitcher with 7 wins in an entire season.

We haven’t started 19-4 since 2010. I don’t get the uproar about Patel coming out of the pen. In reality it doesn’t matter when you only used up two pitchers. What would have been the difference in Patel starting and Jones finishing 3 innings? We need another effective starter anyway you slice it..

 

[gtbeak]

The latest tweet from Tech baseball includes a photo of a righty #20 something. I admit I don't know my players using visual cues...is that Caden Spivey? If so, that seems to imply he'll get the start this morning.

 

[Techcaster572]

The latest tweet from Tech baseball includes a photo of a righty #20 something. I admit I don't know my players using visual cues...is that Caden Spivey? If so, that seems to imply he'll get the start this morning.

Yes, that's Spivey.

Glad to see the former ND starter getting a chance to start against his old team.

Personally, I feel that Spivey is a better fit to start.
I hope it works out.

I think Spivey, Ballard, and Swygert all should get a shot at the Sunday role unless Spivey just locks down the role today vs the Irish

Believe me, this has nothing to do with Stanford. I just feel that he is better suited for the pen.

 

[GT33]

We haven’t started 19-4 since 2010. I don’t get the uproar about Patel coming out of the pen. In reality it doesn’t matter when you only used up two pitchers. What would have been the difference in Patel starting and Jones finishing 3 innings? We need another effective starter anyway you slice it..

@DecaturJacket feels strongly about his position & he's obviously a knowledgeable and observant GT baseball fan, has a deep understanding of pitching maybe none of us on here have. He could be absolutely correct and those like me & you on the other side completely wrong. It matters if you're wasting arms, but we're not I don't think. Up to this point, the management of the pitching has been outstanding in my opinion. Just think of that, we've sat here for 5+ years bitching about pitching & we finally got a decent strategy. We need 27 innings in 3 weekend games plus 9 innings in our weekday game. 36 innings need to be covered, the staff seems to have 18 on Fri & Sat pretty well covered with the other 18 under high debate.

I just feel like we're debating with one of those Continuous Improvement/Lean 6 Sigma gurus at work that want to reorganize work cubes at work to save money by relocating departments every other year claiming cost savings moving Dept A where Dept B is, then claiming more savinings when they move them back 2 years later. All you did was move the work somewhere else, then moved it right back. Same thing applies to innings here from my perspective.

Our problem is recruiting and/or developing reliable arms. If we had 3 Tates and 3 Patels, we'd be arguing why so & so new pitcher hasn't gotten any innings yet. We have 1 Tate, 1 Patel, maybe a Paden if he's not sick/injured. Then we have guys that seem to have a pitch count limit (or should have based on their demonstrated effectiveness) that we sometimes try to stretch another batter or two, but we screw them over by leaving them in too long because we're trying to manage a series & are probably concerned we'll run out of arms.

Overall, I'm giving kudos to the staff. They've got us from being routinely demolished & I don't care if it was weekend or midweek, but outside of 3 games in 23 have appeared to have made good moves which caused us to win. They hooked pitchers like crazy in one of those losses, nobody was effective despite being given the chance.

 

[MWBATL]

Riley starting game 3

 

[THWG]

Great sweep! It's nice to know Paden isn't hurt and Gaudette and Spivey were fantastic. It's impressive that we got the sweep without Schmidt too.

 

[bensaysitathome]

Winning on the road is tough. This team seems business-like in their approach.

Loving how well-rounded we are - even when Drew struggles to make contact, we can still drop 10 runs.

 

[Eli]

20-4 with maybe the youngest roster in P4. I’m too excited to be a Tech fan.. ha

 

[GTNavyNuke]

The only poll winner was @YJMD .

Great sweep. Next weekend, we host Clemson. Big time series.

 

[GT33]

The only poll winner was @YJMD .

Great sweep. Next weekend, we host Clemson. Big time series.

Damn Danny leaving Stanford in to give up that gopher ball.

 

[gtrower]

The 4-0 week has pushed us top 20 RPI (although we’ll probably slip down a few spots before the end of the day) and will undoubtedly result in breaking into the polls next week to set up a big matchup with Clemson. Will be a good measuring stick to see if we’re actually good or if our ACC schedule has just been soft to start.

 

[MaconJackets]

Awesome sweep. Glad we were able to play today. Something that’s encouraging to me is how well the offense was when DB doesn’t hit well. I guess it depends on how you look at it. Let’s hope he heats up this weekend and the rest of the squad continues to mash

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Great pitching today. Only 1 ER.

Paden came back and pitched 3.0 scoreless with 53 pitches. Hope to see more of that!

 

[CINCYMETJACKET]

We're currently 5-1 on the road against teams that we have struggled to win series against in years past on the road in VT and ND. Big blemish is that home loss to Pitt. But looking really good so far. Notre Dame beat Clemson on Sunday at Clemson a week ago. So we just need to go out there and play our game. Have confidence that we're going to win, and just do your job. Nothing more, nothing less.